Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): I will not detain the House for long. Many of the old Labour Members who are present will know that I am a trade unionist: I was a proud member of the Fire Brigades Union for many years. When I joined the FBU—which was before it was thrown out of the Labour party—it was a closed shop, although I am pleased to be able to say that the union has moved on from that.
I have grave concerns about two aspects of these amendments. New clause 1 has been extensively discussed, but I wish to talk about proposed new section 238AB(4)(b), relating to complaints to employment tribunals. It states:
“and for the avoidance of doubt, compensation may be awarded in respect of injury to feelings whether or not awarded under any other head.”
That measure would allow an unlimited sum of compensation to be awarded for “injury to feelings”. How will that be assessed? My feelings are very upset that old Labour Members are not screaming and shouting at me, as a former trade union member, for standing up to speak against new clause 1. Am I to be compensated for that? Should I approach a trade union and say, “Come and represent me, and see if my feelings have been hurt”? This is a ludicrous situation.
Rob Marris rose—
Mike Penning: No, I will not give way.
Under this proposed measure, an unlimited sum of compensation could be imposed on a large or small company because somebody’s feelings had been hurt. I am sure that this proposed new section was drafted with the best intentions, but it should have been drafted much better, and that could also be said of several other parts of new clause 1.
Rob Marris: Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?
Mike Penning: No.
As for new clause 2, I am astonished that so many of the trade union members and former trade union members who are at this moment sitting on the Labour Benches—some of them with 20-odd years’ experience as officials in trade unions—do not have a clue where their members are. How can they turn to an employer and say, “Excuse me, but I’m not quite sure where my membership is at present, so will you please be kind enough to let me know where my members are?” What sorts of organisations are you Labour Members members of? My fishing club knows where I live, let alone a trade union with thousands or millions of members around the country. Perhaps some of your members should have more contact from you. Perhaps some of your members should know—
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman must remember that they are not my members.
Mike Penning: If you were a member, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am sure you would know where your office was and where your membership was.
Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con): For the avoidance of doubt, my hon. Friend should know that for a number of years now one of the larger unions has insisted that I am a member of that union, and I repeatedly get voting rights papers coming through the door. The unions had got themselves into quite a mess even when I was leader of the party, and this is why these Labour Members have tabled this new clause.
Mike Penning: My right hon. Friend highlights the complete chaos that still exists within the trade unions. Perhaps before the unions go to the employers and ask where their members are, they should make a point of contacting their members and explaining to them how much of their contribution to the trade union goes to the Labour party and is bankrolling the Government. That is crucial, because if they are doing that— [Interruption.] Labour Members say from a sedentary position they are doing that now, but if they are doing that, they do not need an employer’s help to find out where their members are. On that basis, any sensible person would oppose new clause 2.
...
SUBSEQUENT INTERVENTIONS ON DIFFERENT CLAUSES OF THE BILL
Mike Penning: We have to be very careful. The hon. Gentleman is talking specifically about the BNP, but this is a catch-all new clause. Perhaps a party that we have not even heard of now will want to start an environmental campaign; under this new clause, it could easily be excluded. The BNP is abhorrent and horrid, but we are discussing a catch-all new clause that could catch any other political party in future.
Tony Lloyd: I shall not come to that point immediately, but if the hon. Gentleman bears with me I shall certainly address it towards the end of my remarks, because it is important.
...
Mike Penning: The problem is that picking on a specific party—I do not want to give it too much oxygen—does not prevent someone who is openly fascist from being a member of a trade union. The danger lies in picking on a political party rather than an individual. As I understand it, this is not about the BNP but about abhorrent views of individuals. That is where the provisions should be much tighter.
Tony Lloyd: I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is disagreeing with me, but perhaps that is because I did not properly understand what he was saying.
...
Mike Penning: But political parties can decide to exclude someone. If someone brought our party into disrepute, they could be excluded, including for something that they had done before joining. I am sure that the same is true for the Labour party, although I do not know about the Liberals.
Lorely Burt: I am not sure that I get the hon. Gentleman’s drift. My point is that any party or trade union should have the right to expel whomever it feels should be expelled. Of course there need to be safeguards, however, and that is completely understood.
| Hansard
