Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): I will speak for only a short time—I am sure that the Minister will be pleased to hear that. I want to talk about natural justice, about which we seldom hear from the Government these days. If patients or their loved ones feel that they have suffered at the hands of the NHS, they have already been substantially hurt and often feel enormously let down. If they are told, “Well, it can’t be an independent inquiry. The trust will do the inquiry themselves,” they will not understand where the natural justice is in the Bill. I am disappointed by what I have heard. I was not on the Committee, but I am on the Health Committee and we have looked at the matter independently—not in a report, but in relation to the information that has come through. I honestly thought that the Government were going to open things up and allow natural justice in the NHS.
As a new MP, all too often I have constituents who come to me and say, “Would you take my case to the ombudsman?” Naturally we have to go through the bureaucratic process of going to the trust and making a formal complaint. My constituents say, “Why? It’s the trust that’s let us down. It’s the trust that made the mistakes.” How on earth are we going to have confidence in the NHS if we tell them, “Don’t worry. We’ve got a brand new Bill. Everything is going to be fine. And, by the way, the trust is going to make the inquiry into your complaint.” That is not going to work.
The Minister should think about this matter carefully. If it were his children or family and he had cause to seek redress, would he be happy to go to the same management and the same people who had been treating his loved ones and perhaps made mistakes? That is where the danger in not accepting the provisions lies. We need confidence in the NHS. The NHS is going through a difficult time.
Mr. Simon: I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying and I appreciate the sincerity of his intent, but, in common with hon. Members across the Opposition Benches, he is missing the fundamental point that the Bill is about the process during which the NHS investigates itself. It is not about these other things. In his example, the alternative is for every case to go straight to the ombudsman. That should not happen, because the NHS is bound to investigate itself and the Bill is about how it does that.
Mike Penning: In all sincerity, I understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from. However, the object of any such Bill is the trust of the public—our constituents—who are using the service. I was not saying, in any shape or form, that we should go from the patient having problems and needing redress straight to the ombudsman. However, as the Bill stands, we still have the trust investigating itself. We have moved away from that in other areas of government. The police used to investigate themselves. They do not do that any more, because the public did not trust the methodology. We have moved away from that. I am not saying we should move straight to the ombudsman; I am saying that trust and natural justice should be addressed, which I am sure was the intention of the Bill at the start. That is not going to happen unless there is independence.
Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that openness and independence are essential to gain confidence in the community and to provide a major protection for the excellent members of the NHS?
Mike Penning: I could not agree more. The hon. Gentleman is spot on. If we had independence it would very much help the professionals who do such a fantastic job in the NHS—those in the management structure and the doctors and nurses who are so worried. The natural assumption is that when another complaint comes in, the walls will go up. Whether or not that is true, it is the perception in the NHS and among patients. I cannot stress how strongly I feel about this matter. We have started to see openness in the NHS: patients can see their records now, which they never used to be able to do. I am sure that the Minister acts in good faith, but I say to him that this part of the Bill is fundamentally wrong. It should be about natural justice, and we will not gain that if the measure lacks independence.
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